Shameless Popery vs. The Oatmeal

Shameless Popery

 vs. 

The Oatmeal

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Let me start this post by stating that I am not anti religion; I am anti organized religion. I also believe in allowing everyone their beliefs, which is why I attend church every Sunday with my daughter (youngest of 3). She has been baptized (by her choice) and serves as a torch bearer (also her choice) during services.

To start, The Oatmeal is a webcomic, it is satirical in nature. As any comedian, they get their humor from life and exaggerate it to make their joke. The humor is in the mixed reality with the absurd. All comedy is like this.

Now back to my point, from the points listed at Shameless Popery:

I did not see The Oatmeal comic as specifically targeting Catholics. In fact, I saw Mormon, Jewish and Scientology specifically named. Although Catholic was implied in # 2, everything else was implied as Christianity as a whole.

1.) I have had some Catholic parishioners actually tell my eldest child that, "the devil is going to open the earth and snatch your mother to hell for not taking you to church." And yes, actually in those words. My son is now 18 and still, to this day, REFUSES to step foot on church grounds because now he believes church is all about threatening small children.

2.) The point the Oatmeal was making is that in many generations, what the church (yes I know, this looks like the Pope in this particular drawing, still think he wasn't TARGETING Catholicism) didn't understand about science tends to be deemed sacrilegious and shunned. Continued in point 3.

3.) I am not pro-life or anti-abortion, but I have CHOSEN to never have one myself. I am pro-choice. Stem cell research can save millions of lives. Although, the best stem cells come from embryos, stem cells can be harvested without killing embryos. I have seen stem cell studies that came from not only aborted fetuses/embryos, but also from amniotic fluids and placentas.  But again, sacrilegious and shunned due to what? The potential for encouraging abortions or test tube biological material?


4.) At Shameless Popery, this one seems to address The Oatmeal's final thought rather than the fourth panel in the webcomic.


5.) (panels 4-8? on The Oatmeal) I loved the color comparison to shoving religion down a child's throat vs. the explanation that no one really knows as a good way to open a dialog with a child. That's all this was, a place to start. Asking a child what they believe is a lovely idea. When I was a child, we did not go to church. My parents did occasionally send me to church though. The first time I brought home books from the public library on mythology and witchcraft, my dad went ballistic. Suddenly I was turning my back on God. Shoving your beliefs down a child's throat by being ridiculous instead of having an open conversation about religion, I'm sure, has a lot to do with why I oppose the organization of religion as a whole.


6.) I felt the point from The Oatmeal here is that religion and our sexuality should not be one in the same. Telling you that sex is bad and only for procreation as a doctorate, seems unfair. Why would it be enjoyable if it was solely for the one purpose. Yes, as Shameless Popery pointed out, there are responsibilities to our sexual actions, but I don't think religious sanctions are quite the answer.


7.) I believe it is okay to share your beliefs in the proper venue. Going door to door and chasing people down to "spread the word" in any religion doesn't feel right, like a violation of personal space. Sure, some people stand and listen, a few maybe go try out your church and maybe agree with you. Here's what I do: In the past, I would stand there (not wanting to interrupt), smile, nod and say whatever I thought would make them go away without hating me (this makes them want to come back). In the not so far past, I would either hide and hope they went away or  tell them I believed in the devil and slam the door (I didn't, but they went away anyway and rarely came back). Now, I open the door, and very politely interrupt them and say, "No thank you, I'm not interested." (They do sometimes still come back, but rarely and I feel better about myself.) I actually have anxiety attacks when dealing with unsolicited door knockers.


8.) I sort of agree here with both sides. Mockery of any religion by another is not done as a whole. However, I have heard, and even occasionally been part of, discussing what comes across as silly or weird to me  This is where a majority of humanity falls short and The Oatmeal actually gave a decent enactment of conversations I have actually heard.


9.) Sadly, I really do believe people vote based on religion. Religion and politics shouldn't be combined (separation of church and state is in the Constitution), but boy do people love to do it anyway.


10.) Every religion has extremists, and honestly it is a sad place in the world where we can't draw an iconic figure in a humorous way without being a target for murder and mayhem. 


11.) If you would kill for your religion, you are probably violating your religion.


12.) I don't see how allowing others to believe what they choose and you believing what you choose and keeping it to yourself when unsolicited is equal to "placebo" which means "fake." Be honest Shameless Popery, If I came to you, door to door or in public, and told you why I don't agree with organized religion, or if I went door to door explaining Ancient Astronaut Theory you would be annoyed with me. Maybe we could march to the White House and insist that creating hybrid clones of human headed horses is our religious right. I completely understand The Oatmeal telling you to keep it to yourself!

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I have always believed in the "Live and let live" philosophy. If I am wrong, I will suffer for it in the end, but that is my choice. As if you are right, you will be rewarded IF you follow what you believe. HOWEVER, one of the core beliefs that MANY Christians violate is, "Thou shalt not judge, lest ye be judged." For that matter civilization breaks that rule in general. You can not say he is a bad person for making his webcomic, because you are judging his opinions. He is judging yours. I am judging yours. We are all going to rot in hell based on this one quote from the bible. So who goes to heaven and ascends? Most likely children and the mentally ill. Because they are the truly pure souls who are have yet to be tainted by real life. Oh, but I can ask forgiveness before I die and go to heaven, right? So I mass murder 1,000 people, and right before the police open fire, I beg God forgiveness and repent. Now I go to heaven, right? Seriously? Now lets move on to marriage equality... So, since the bible, in the old testament says marriage is between a man and a woman, our government should not allow gays to marry. Well the bible also allows us to own slaves in the old testament, shuns women on their monthly "unclean period", and allows you to stone "to the death" people who disobey the bible.

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So does it matter if you agree or disagree with me? Not at all. I am educated and honest. I am a good person. Not because I go to church or believe in a deity, but because I am polite. I did not call either argument stupid or insult either party in any way (I hope). However I did notice that in Shameless Popery's rebuttle, the author referred to The Oatmeal's points as "stupid." I find this kind of debating technique offensive.

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If you got this far, thank you for reading.

A Bad Dream

So this morning, I woke up in a horrible fright. I had the worst dream a mother can imagine.

In my dream I was crying, apparently my daughter had died in a school related bus accident along with her friend. (In my dream the friend was unnamed, but in my head looked like her friend Siani from Girl Scouts) I was moving down the long street in my old neighborhood where I grew up. I felt like I was riding on something, but I don't know what. Every time I would pass a little girl bike or playhouse, I would cry some more. I decided to go to the church that my daughter loved so much. When I got there, it looked like a cafeteria from a school. In the far right corner were some dumpsters and to the left their were cafeteria style  folding tables that were set up like benches in a row and along the side row of benches, there were shopping carts with balloons tied to them. On the balloons were pictures of the two girls. I still don't know if there were more than the 2 balloons, but I feel like they were repeating the images down the row. I cried, "My daughter!" I went over and somehow I was sitting down and my daughter was sitting in front of me talking to me about her passing. She was telling me how God had taken her from me to teach me a lesson and that I should appreciate him. Other than a few scenes where I was crying behind the dumpster and replaying the scene with my daughter, I don't remember much else after this except having to use the restroom...and so I woke up.


It took a few minutes after waking for it to sink in that I had lost my daughter in the dream. So immediately after finishing in the bathroom, I went to her room. She has this decorative netting that goes around her bed, like a princess, but when I walked in the room, it was wrapped around her like a blanket. I carefully removed it and draped it back over the foot of her bed and I just stood there and watched to make sure she was breathing. Of course she was, it was only a dream after all.

I hate religion, and this is a good example of why. I believe there is something out there that contributed to our existence on the planet Earth. I don't know what, who, or how but I believe that science will find the answer one way or another. But I have a hard time accepting that there is this "one true God" who will punish you for not believing in him. Taking away your loved ones to teach you of his existence to me would be counter productive. Because although you might believe in him, you would resent him forever. I also don't comprehend how everyone says, "God is a merciful God." Only to be banished to the fires of Hell for misdeeds  and lack of repentance. I am a good, nice, and honest person. I try to love and care for everyone equally. I try to always do the right thing, because I feel bad when I don't. I am sure my dream stemmed from a whole slew of religious post I saw on Facebook right before going to bed. Plus the massive headache I've had for almost 2 days could have been playing tricks on me. Or even a combination of both. All I know is that I am alive and so are my children. But what a fucked up way to wake up.

My ups and downs with organized religion

I have never been a devoutly religious person. It may have been due to some bad experiences with several churches over the course of my childhood.

Experience Number One:  As a child, maybe 6 or 7, these people in a school bus stopped on our street and showed us kids some magic tricks. They then told us that we could come to their church for Sunday school on their bus. My parents agreed to let me go to church on the bus each Sunday. I went for awhile and during Sunday school they used to do a prayer session where we could have a group prayer for whatever anyone wanted to pray about. I was a child, and did not know what depression looked like, so I thought my mom was always sick. So each week, my prayer request was for my mom to get better. One week during prayer session, I requested my usual prayer and the Sunday school teacher told me, "You always want to pray for your mom, how about you pray for something else?" That was the last Sunday I got on that bus.

Experience Number Two: At 9 years old, we moved to Florida. My grandma knew some people who were sending their kids to a church summer camp. Seeing as how we had just moved and weren't really settled, my parents decided it would be a good idea to send me to camp. COMPLETELY UNPREPARED. We packed my clothes, and my grandma got me a new blue jean purse and a cute leather change purse, with some money for the snack area and that was it. I get there and there are bunk beds, I was thinking, "Cool! I've never been on a bunk bed." We drop our stuff off at our bunks and dive into camp activities. Coming back to the bunks, I find out that people have their own sheets, pillows, blankets, sleeping bags, etc. I of course have none of these, and of course neither do the bunk beds. So there I am, in a strange place, with strange people, and I'm the only one with no bedding. A couple of nice girls at camp let me use a sheet and a sleeping bag. A few days into camp and I am approached by staff at my bunk. They ask me about my coin purse and how I have the money folded and how much I have. Apparently, one of those "nice" girls who I thought was my friend, claimed I took her money and it was in my coin purse. They call my parents and keep all my money. I spend the rest of camp with no funds and being treated like a thief. I have never been to camp again.

Experience Number Three: Now I am about 15 this time. I like this boy and as it turns out, he lives next door to a church. Me and my friend start hanging out at the church and eventually are invited to join the church's youth group. We go to meetings and events with the church's youth group and everything is all fun and games. I guess it turned out to be less about the boy (who did not attend that church, just lived next door to it) and more about an escape from my home life (That is for another post, another time.) One evening at the youth group meeting, we were watching a movie and having snacks. My friend and I were sitting in the back and being goofy, and maybe a little rambunctious, but hey were were teenage girls. We were actually asked to leave and not return because we were, "not taking this seriously." So, I didn't come back.

Okay, so experience number three was mostly my own doing, I was there for the wrong reasons and not behaving properly. But I was under the impression that church was the place to go when you were a troubled youth, and that I was.


At 15, I also went to a Catholic service in Spanish, so I had no idea what was going on, which oddly enough, I saw that boy from experience number three there as well.

At about 23 years old, I discovered the internet. This is where I started doing some hardcore reading on Witchcraft. I played with that a bit, took some online e-mail "witch" classes. Once I realized that witchcraft was not what you read about or see on TV, I moved on to Paganism. I have played around with the Pagan ideas for many years, but never got extremely serious, or devoutly, involved in it.

I also attended a LDS service about 2 years ago with my next door neighbors because my daughter went to church with them and wanted me to go too.

Jumping into present age me, I am 35 and now my daughter wants to go to the church that her Girl Scout troop meets at. So the first Sunday in November 2011, we go to church. Everyone is friendly, there is a coffee hour, Sunday school, Traditional and Contemporary services. We have gone almost every week since. In fact, we only missed the one service on new years because it was a combined service, so everyone from three different services were going to the one service together, my social anxiety would have killed me. My daughter signed up for the Christmas Pageant and got to be an angel. Some of the families from Girl Scouts and the church pitched in when they heard we were not going to have anything for Christmas. All together, they raised over $300 for my family in less than a week. We had the best Christmas ever, and had some money leftover for gas and groceries. It has been wonderful.

Now, I am not saying that I believe in "one true God" or that there is even a God at all. My mom says this experience is proof that there is a God, but I say it is only proof that there are still good people in this world. So I will continue to go to this church as long as they will have me. I will keep an open mind even though every time they talk about angels descending from heaven, I picture aliens descending from space ships. I will help my fellow man, just as they have helped us. "Do unto others," right?